My interview with The Anxious Generation’s Jonathan Haidt

His "4 norms" for kids and tech make sense. But cellphone bans aren't enough.

Jonathan Haidt has serious momentum right now. A few years ago, he was a professor best known for studying morality. But since his book The Anxious Generation became a bestseller in 2024, he’s been leading the movement to shape school rules, state policies, and how parents talk about screens.

About time, right?

Then why would someone like me, who has been calling out the effects of devices on our attention span for over a decade, quibble?

I’ll get there. First, some background.

Actually, first — an ask. :)

Chapter 6 in my upcoming book, Body Electric, is all about helping kids to learn to tune into their bodies and manage their tech. Please pre-order now! Pre-orders are the best way to make sure bookstores stock the title on pub date May 5!

Ok, back to the newsletter.

Haidt’s pitch is persuasive because it’s actionable

If you don’t know Haidt, his push for four new “norms” are at the heart of his book:

No smartphone before high school.
No social media before 16.
Phone-free schools.
More independence and free play.

No wonder parents have rallied around these rules. They’re clear-cut and people love guidelines that make an out-of-control situation feel more manageable. Plus, they take back agency from tech companies that have weaseled and optimized their way to stock market success.

But here’s my worry: We enact these rules, pat ourselves on the back, and say DONE! Good thing we fixed that kids and screens problem!

If we restrict access until a kid is 13, 16, or 18, what happens when they hit those milestones? It’s not like a young person automatically gets the maturity to manage their devices (and AI) along with their birthday cake. Heck, look at us parents struggling!

There are so many menacing stock photos of kids with phones. I actually like this one by Andrey K on Unsplash

I agree on so many points that Jon makes. But this policy posture assumes a level of community coordination and day-to-day stability that many families just don’t have. And even if we tell students “no phones in school,” we still have to figure out what happens at 3:15 p.m. And weekends. And vacations.

How do we coach kids to develop the ability to manage their emotions rather than distracting or calming themselves with their devices?

There are good reasons why kids spend a lot of time online: They don’t have anywhere else to go or anyone else to turn to.

So we have to dig into what happens beyond rules and restrictions. Here’s what I’m watching and hopeful for:

1) Use Big Tech money to expand kids’ offline options.

The Children’s Funding Project and the Afterschool Alliance are leading a big push to make sure that if states win major settlements against social media companies, those dollars expand programs that support kids in real life, including after-school and summer programs, supervised hangout spaces, mentorships, and camps. Shawna Rosenzweig, CEO of Camp Fire, which connects kids to outdoor programs, recently made this call to action:

It’s time to stop wringing our hands and start rolling up our sleeves. The solution is here—and funds that result from social media lawsuits offer a means to invest in it.

I’m a big proponent of after-school and summer programs. Who wouldn’t be? Child psychologist Gil Noam says they don’t just “keep kids busy.” He writes that they’re one of the most practical resilience-builders. The programs, ideally, surround kids with adults they can trust, which is still one of the strongest protective factors for youth well-being. And, unlike in the classroom, they don’t make social-emotional learning feel like “a lesson.”

But kids still spend the majority of their day in school, so what else should be done there?

2) Help kids develop their own mind-body-tech resilience in school.

My own research and interviews with physiologists like Keith Diaz have led me to this: Get kids moving more in school, at an earlier age.

If we want kids who can manage screens when the guardrails come off at 13 or 16 years old, we should stop squeezing movement out of the school day and start treating it as a cognitive must.

Students are seated for about three-quarters of the school day. But the research is increasingly clear that physical activity can support executive function in young children and that even short “active breaks” in class reliably improve classroom behavior and readiness to learn.

This doesn’t replace smart tech norms—but it complements them and may be one of the few free and scalable things that schools can do to help kids develop their brains and bodies. (Think attention control, emotion regulation, and the ability to shift mental gears.)

I’m grateful to Jon Haidt for helping make kids’ tech use a global conversation. And/but it needs to be more than: put away your phone, period.

If you’re curious, please listen to my TED Radio Hour interviews with Jon and a young man named Maximillian Milovidov, who is unimpressed with being called a member of the “anxious” generation:

“I'm not an anxious generation. When you label an entire generation as anxious, it kind of defines them. Gen Z is just going to think, well, we're cursed, you know?”

People have big feelings about this one. I’d love to hear yours. Respond to this email or leave a comment.

Thanks for being here,
Manoush